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Saturday, June 21, 2008

Message to Senator Hillary Clinton about the FISA Bill...

 


UPDATE JULY 9, 2008 THANK YOU SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON FOR YOUR VOTE AGAINST FISA! by awakening Wednesday, July 09, 2008









Link to Obama statement Obama Gives in to Bush on Domestic Spying By Bill Wolfe at Voters for Peace June 21 2008 "sacrificing the rule of law and the Fourth Amendment"


ACLU House Approves Unconstitutional Surveillance Legislation (6/20/2008) Contact 202-675-2312 or media@dcaclu.org


GOOGLE NEWS - House passes compromise wiretap bill - Of all 869 news articles » Only Results 121 - 140 6:00am returned...as of tonight 7:50pm "205" returns.




TWO VISITORS MADE IMPORTANT COMMENTS TODAY...(roll down to read the letter and click on comments at the bottom of post to read all opinions)

4 Comments Total:


#1 Anonymous said...
Sorry, but Hillary's position has been weaker than Obama's:

1) She had the chance to vote against the bill in February. She failed to show up. Meanwhile, Obama showed up to vote against immunity even though this was at the hottest time in the primary fight between him and HRC:

http://www.cuivienen.org/blog/2008/02/
clinton_vs_obama_on_telecom_im.html

2) Glenn Greenwald, who is not an Obamabot, pointed out last week to rabid Hillaryite Paul Lukasiak that Hillary has actually said far less on FISA than Obama, and far less that was good:

I remember a few months ago, when the Senate was preparing to vote on amnesty and FISA, and we had to force statements out of Clinton and Obama. Both of the statements they issued were vague and non-committal, and I and many other bloggers were extremely critical of both. In response, Obama almost immediately issued a much clearer and more committed statement. Clinton never did. Were you yelling and kicking and screaming back then like you claim today you would be doing if she were still running? I don’t recall that.



#2 Anonymous said...
What's not clear about Clinton's statement on FISA? She co-sponsored the Dodd amendment to block immunity. Also, NEITHER Obama nor Clinton voted in Feb. Their "nays" would not have affected the vote. They both made statements. Here is Clinton's:

"I believe we need to modernize our surveillance laws and give our nation"s intelligence professionals the tools they need to fight terrorism and to make our country more secure. At the same time, smart, balanced reform must also protect the rights and civil liberties of Americans. In my opinion, the FISA Amendments Act of 2007 falls short of these goals, and for that reason, I oppose the bill.

As I have maintained for months, I oppose the provision contained in the bill that grants blanket retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that allegedly cooperated in the administration's warrantless wiretapping program. I believe granting retroactive immunity under these circumstances is wrong and undermines accountability. To that end, I have supported and cosponsored Senator Dodd's strong efforts to strip this provision from the FISA bill, and was discouraged to see the amendment fail by such a significant margin.

Over the past seven years, the Bush Administration has blatantly and systematically disregarded Americans' civil liberties. It cannot be trusted to protect Americans' privacy rights. That is why I strongly believe we need to pass balanced legislation that protects our civil liberties and the rule of law while giving our law enforcement and intelligence agencies the tools they need to protect our country." Hillary Clinton Feb. 2008



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sent June 21, 2008


Dear Senator Clinton,
Firstly, I wish you were still in the race for the President of the United States!

Secondly, I am going to post this letter on my blog. Usually I don’t do this as a rule.

Thirdly, I am a tad concerned about you urging your donor’s to shift their dollar support to Senator Barack Obama at this time.

Unless you are in full agreement with his stance on the recent FISA bill / vote, please reconsider doing an event with him at this time.

Senator Obama's remark’s in support of the FISA bill is very disturbing. Especially because he is / was a Constitutional lawyer.

I however, am not shocked by his remarks because of the turn of events that led to you suspending your campaign (i.e, your party members).

Just very disappointed, that's all.

The FISA bill sends the wrong message to the citizens and to the world.

You stand for a great many things that we Americans can be proud of. The times we live in demand restoration across this land and the people need to believe in the things that made this country good and great. We do need reminders of the things that were not good, but put in a text book or a film.

We can't mix 'A land of laws' and then let the lawmakers run amuck. We can't shout 'Freedom of speech' and then be silenced. And we can't have 'Let liberty ring' then muffle the sights and sounds of true democracy.

So, I am writing to you to express my optimism for my country if you will re-enter the race. I know you are a true blue Democratic party member. I am not, so I feel I can ask you to consider running as an Independent.

I will not even consider voting for Senator Obama now. I was reluctant before his statement on the FISA vote. That’s because I still was hanging on to a thread that you might re-enter the race. I was willing to compromise only if you were on the ticket with him.

But now, even though I held on to the idea of a Dream Team almost from the beginning, I would never vote for Sen. Obama now. I don’t settle and just vote for someone because they might be better than the other guy. I stopped doing that when I became an Independent. Except for 2006, after 20 some odd years I voted straight ticket (D). That was very hard and my level of feeling satisfaction for doing has not been worth it at all.

I won’t vote for Senator Obama just because he’s better than the other guy - McCain. I just won’t vote period.

I always voted for whom I believed was the 'Best' and will never detour from that prescription again. Deciding who the best is a hard and cumbersome chore. But that is worth every minute spent on getting to know who the candidates are and truly believing they are the Best.

I chose Ross Perot because of his vision of what was needed - hard edged preventative governing is what I call it. His model of government fit best with my ideals because of the Reagan / Bush terms and the damage done to our country.

I switched from you to John Edwards because of your vote on the Iranian Guard. I didn't like when you said you would ‘obliterate’ the Iranians, if they attacked Israel. Israel has an arsenal of nuclear weapons and Iran does not. Your statement didn't sit well with me at all.

But I did have a feeling that with a lot of emails I might (and others) like me might've gotten you to look at both sides more objectively. Please consider talking with a few Iranian Jewish citizens that actually reside in Iran when you can. And please also talk to the real leaders of Iran.

This link will show you how many different religions are in Iran, filled with people, children, mothers, elderly and pets.

http://nolostfamilycustoms.blogspot.com/2007/10/being-proud-iranian-jew-would-be-better.html

I jumped on your band wagon after former Senator Edwards suspended his campaign. I watched a few debates where you went head to head with the moderators. I cheered as you set them straight on how they were coming off. That is the Hillary Clinton I remember from the 1990’s.

I don’t know what your campaign advisors were thinking when they presented you the way they did. It was awful. Until I took the time to peal back the layers, I was lucky enough to find that you, the person, was still as strong as ever. Maybe you took over and that is when ‘you’ began to emerge. That strength in character from the 1990’s was the thing that had a lot of talking about you one day running for the President of the United States.

We just knew you had that edge to do a better job of running our country, then anyone had in a long while or that anyone would. I did believe that the presidency belonged to you this time around. I waited a long time for you to run.

I've written a lot about you on my blog.

Please consider a different strategy for the time being. Please delay the event with Senator Obama. Something is happening between him and his supporters and the true blue Democratic party members. It’s something that you could be instrumental in helping to resolve by reshaping how the Democrats are looked at right now. Approval ratings are very low for the entire congress. When the time comes I know that you could take the floor of congress by storm. You are one of the greatest speakers in my life time.

If you do support the FISA vote like Sen. Obama then please don't add fuel to the fire.

I liken the FISA vote outcome to a hornets nest. It doesn't help to know that there are about 70 bush dog democrats in the House of Representatives. I don't know how many in the Senate.

I'm either going to be forced to not vote on election day or will just vote for local / state candidates and leave the presidential candidate circle blank.

Right now I'm waiting for former Governor Jessie Ventura to start his campaign in July. He was a very good Governor with great skill for creating transparency in our state government. No one got away with anything when he was in office. Both sides complained about his style and tactics all of the time.

Which I actually found led to more information being shared about the activity going on inside the capital. Bills were talked about more often and new laws being proposed were highlighted more thoroughly. And it seemed that over all the state government was a lot more open to the people because of Governor Ventura’s steady stance on a common sense legislative business model. All without taking the rights away from the citizen. It actually got more people involved.

And he was a very involved and proactive Mayor of Brooklyn Park, MN before he was the Governor. His wife Terrie had a solid voice and opinion too. Former Governor Ventura ‘Is’ the real deal and he does believe in the United States Constitution.

I will have at least him to vote for when its time. But I’d be happier if I had you to vote for too. That is only if you still oppose the FISA bill.

My daughter and I still support and admire you. Thank you and best wishes.




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Comments of Zoe Lofgren on Telecom Immunity and H.R. 6304 by Jim at Irregular Times Saturday, June 21st, 2008


TALK LEFT FISA: Hillary And Obama to Vote No on Cloture By Jeralyn SunDAY Jan 27, 2008

"He has an Obaminable voting record last year, Missed almost 40% of the votes -- far more than Clinton or any other candidates from Congress on the campaign trail" by Cream City on Mon Jan 28, 2008



Obama compromise on FISA worries some supporters by Kim Pearson at Blogher Sunday June 22, 2008


(328)Comments Obama Backing FISA "Compromise" By Greg Sargent TPM June 20, 2008


FISA Compromise II by Michael Cohen at Democracy Arsenal June 21, 2008 "Clearly I am in the minority in the liberal blogosphere." AND "Tomorrow, I will write a few words about why I think telecom companies are getting a bum rap here."



BUZZFLASH EDITOR'S BLOG Why is the Dem Congressional Leadership Abandoning the Constitution and the Rule of Law on FISA? by Mark Karlin Sunday June 22, 2008



Six Hours a Week - Adventures of a Sudden Patriot No FISA Vote? Well. Hillary Lost This White Lady Today February 12, 2008 "Today Clinton neglected to vote on the FISA bill and she lost my vote.

She offers a Comprehensive Government Reform page on her web site, but won't stand up NOW against vast, illegal spying in our out of control surveillance society. Obama, on the other hand, voted against telecom immunity. I called Clinton's campaign office to let them know this decided it, and then donated to Obama's campaign."


The NSA Gives me the "Glomar Response" By Kyeann on April 22, 2008 "And, if you think you've sniffed out spooks in your midst, do your own FOIA request. Those of us who have been Glomared under this administration will have recourse one day, methinks."



Hillary Clinton Statement on FISA By Jane Hamsher Firedoglake Monday January 28, 2008
"With the temporary Protect America Act set to expire on February 1st, I strongly believe that we need to pass balanced legislation that protects our civil liberties and the rule of law while giving our law enforcement and intelligence agencies the tools they need to protect our country."



Bush Got What He Wanted On Telecom Immunity the Left Coaster by Steve Soto Friday, June 20th, 2008
COMMENTS: "Face it, there is just one party now, the Authoritarian Surveillence Party (ASP).

Rule One, Always use cash when you can."
Posted by Nobody at June 20, 2008

And who were among the 105 Democrats who voted for this bill? Well, how about these losers:




Barack Obama Joins the Wimps On Spying Against Us by jclifford at Irregular Times Friday, June 20th, 2008

Today, Barack Obama joined the spineless wimps of the Democratic Congress.

“I support the compromise.” - Barack Obama.




Statement of Barack Obama supporting Hoyer FISA bill posted by Glenn Greenwald Friday, June 20, 2008

Statement of Senator Barack Obama on FISA Compromise

COMMENT: "This is the best that a presidential candidate that taught constitutional law can do? I'm heartsick. He's only supporting the compromise because there was something worse before it? And, he expects us to rely on his good judgment in the White House, rather than the rule of law to uphold and defend the constitution. I feel awful. I got to lay down for awhile; after which, I am going to re-register as an independent. Change you can believe in? HAH!"



Citizens Against Lies Democrats Give In to Bush AGAIN June 21, 2008 "IMMORAL AND WRONG"



Blue America’s Steny Hoyer FISA ad By: Howie Klein at Crooks and Liars Friday,June 20th, 2008

#18 L.A. Confidential Says: I agree with Big Tent.

Barack Obama said: I will work in the Senate to remove this [telecom immunity] provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses…

“Work” MUST include leading a filibuster of the Steny Surrender bill. I am saying that a vow to remove this provision includes a vow to filibuster the Steny Surrender bill. He made that very vow in April. I am holding him to it.

If he breaks that vow, it will be more evidence that Obama is not a man of his word.


#36 dada Says: frances @ 95: After the Obama move, I’m curious to see what MoveOn’s reaction to this will be.


#92 tyree Says: your exactly right! ive said this before on here, they all suck off the same straw!



Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton unite to calm Democratic party conflicts By Tim Shipman in Washington Telegraph June 6, 2008



Obama Supports FISA Legislation, Angering Left By Paul Kane The Washington Post by a June 20, 2008

COMMENTS:

"obama disappointed me by supporting Israel unconditionally, supporting their military exercises and the protection from the so called "Iranian threat", and now this."

"Well, well well, and well. Looks like your boy is like most of the rest of em. Hillary still has time until August."

"Bummer. I was a conservative Republican supporting Obama partly because of Bush-McCain's crazy idea of fighting for our liberties/Constitution by stripping us of our liberties, violating our Constitution. And now that Obama supports this where do I turn to?"

"The money I've contributed to Obama's campaign is gone. The money I would have continued sending him will now go to the ACLU. This legislation will be challenged in the courts, based on its unconstitutionality. Congress cannot pass a bill making exceptions to the 4th amendment, nor can it pass ex post facto laws. And as we have seen with the Military Commissions Act, the Supreme Court may very well not like Congress trying to sidestep the judiciary on a constitutional matter. It ain't over."

"If Obama goes along with this then it
truly sends a message of more of the same nobody gets it. McCain is for it and so is Obama?! Obama just lost my vote and money"




House passes new surveillance law Compromise bill easily approved; shields telecoms from related lawsuits AP MSNBC Friday June. 20, 2008

"Some civil liberties and privacy groups are also opposing the bill. They object not only to the immunity provision but to what they consider the weakening of the FISA court's oversight of government eavesdropping."

"Key senators voiced strong opposition to the compromise, although they're unlikely to have the votes to either defeat or filibuster the bill."


Link Link

4 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, but Hillary's position has been weaker than Obama's:

1) She had the chance to vote against the bill in February. She failed to show up. Meanwhile, Obama showed up to vote against immunity even though this was at the hottest time in the primary fight between him and HRC:

http://www.cuivienen.org/blog/2008/02/clinton_vs_obama_on_telecom_im.html

2) Glenn Greenwald, who is not an Obamabot, pointed out last week to rabid Hillaryite Paul Lukasiak that Hillary has actually said far less on FISA than Obama, and far less that was good:

I remember a few months ago, when the Senate was preparing to vote on amnesty and FISA, and we had to force statements out of Clinton and Obama. Both of the statements they issued were vague and non-committal, and I and many other bloggers were extremely critical of both. In response, Obama almost immediately issued a much clearer and more committed statement. Clinton never did. Were you yelling and kicking and screaming back then like you claim today you would be doing if she were still running? I don’t recall that.

June 21, 2008 10:48 AM  
Blogger Awakening said...

Hi Anon,
That was probably the fastest reply I've gotten. You've given me an idea for another letter to write to Senator Clinton. Maybe she'll step forward and tear up the Senate floor this time. She has nothing to lose now. Keep your fingers crossed that a lot of Senators step forward to oppose the FISA bill. Thank you for your input and the link!
awakening

June 21, 2008 11:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's not clear about Clinton's statement on FISA? She co-sponsored the Dodd amendment to block immunity. Also, NEITHER Obama nor Clinton voted in Feb. Their "nays" would not have affected the vote. They both made statements. Here is Clinton's:

"I believe we need to modernize our surveillance laws and give our nation"s intelligence professionals the tools they need to fight terrorism and to make our country more secure. At the same time, smart, balanced reform must also protect the rights and civil liberties of Americans. In my opinion, the FISA Amendments Act of 2007 falls short of these goals, and for that reason, I oppose the bill.

As I have maintained for months, I oppose the provision contained in the bill that grants blanket retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that allegedly cooperated in the administration's warrantless wiretapping program. I believe granting retroactive immunity under these circumstances is wrong and undermines accountability. To that end, I have supported and cosponsored Senator Dodd's strong efforts to strip this provision from the FISA bill, and was discouraged to see the amendment fail by such a significant margin.

Over the past seven years, the Bush Administration has blatantly and systematically disregarded Americans' civil liberties. It cannot be trusted to protect Americans' privacy rights. That is why I strongly believe we need to pass balanced legislation that protects our civil liberties and the rule of law while giving our law enforcement and intelligence agencies the tools they need to protect our country." Hillary Clinton Feb. 2008

June 21, 2008 5:38 PM  
Blogger Awakening said...

Thank you Anon#2. I'm going to post your and Anon#1 comments at the top of the post. Clarification is good! I get people dropping by here and there, I'm still a minnow blog in a sea of big blogger fish. The one thing people can't get enough of is Information. I am going to do another letter to Senator Clinton about her role in the Senate opposing FISA, but probably won't post that one. I truly hope that she does take a loud stand and that CSPAN captures it for the American audience as well as the global audience. It isn't that other politicians in the Congress aren't important; it’s just that Senator Clinton has what it takes to make a bigger impact amongst her group. Isn't this election year a time when a lot of incumbent Senators and Representatives have to start considering another line of work...?!?
awakening

June 21, 2008 7:25 PM  

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